Who would’ve thought a less is more business model would yield great returns? Moving to California, Cheryl Yannotti Foland adopted a more minimalistic lifestyle realizing that less is more. Listen in to learn how Cheryl turned simple into success.
Table of Contents
- Cheryl’s Back Story
- Moving from East to West Coast
- Adopting a Less Is More Mentality
- Insights: More Is Not Better
- Buy Less: It’s a Mindful Act
- Evolving the Strategy
- Bootstrapping Provides Comfort
- Having the Network
- The Influence of COVID-19
- Authenticity, and Mutual, Genuine Relationships
- The Value of Diverse Experiences
- The Importance of Experience and A Trusted Network
- Links to Cheryl
Cheryl’s Back Story
Mimi: Cheryl Foland is the founder and CEO of Lilah B. Cheryl, I'm so excited to have you on today. And I noticed Cheryl that you did the transition like I did, from East Coast to West Coast. I think you were like three years ahead of me. I moved out I think it was nine years ago. But I went to LA with my family. So I'm just curious, like what made you decide to go across the country?
Cheryl: Well, it's actually a very interesting story. I wasn't all for it right away. And I actually moved out here kicking and screaming. Little did I know, I would never leave. I spent a good 20 years, almost two decades in the world of private equity working with an operating team in and out of various different companies. Inevitably, it landed me in the beauty space.
Before that I was in New York, right out of college, working my tail off little to no work-life balance. A little bit more about that I'll touch on when I tell you my story and the evolution of how Lilah B. came to be. We had an opportunity. We acquired Arcade marketing. They're now rebranded as Arcade beauty. They are just a fabulous company and we acquired the company.
Moving from East to West Coast
We recognized very, very soon within the first two years of running the business out of New York, just how many brands, particularly small indie brands were based out here in California. This market really wasn't tapped into for providing marketing and sampling solutions to beauty brands. How do you sample a product? How do you launch a product getting a trial use into the hands of a consumer? So about two years into the Arcade acquisition, we identified all these fabulous brands out here benefit. These brands included Bare Essentials, Sephora, Urban Decay to be just incredible, small – small back then, indie brands no longer small.
So I was tapped to come out here and really tap into that. That market – this market and start to develop relationships with these brands. We then grew. The sales team grew the West Coast office. What I thought was going to be two years and then I've had back to New York turned into just a fabulous work and life experience. I fell in love with California, fell in love with everything here, including my husband, and never went back. So and I can't imagine. I mean, I was pre COVID I was getting back there often enough because I obviously have all my friends and family still there. But I don't know, I think California is where I belong. And so I yeah, I just love it.
Mimi: That's great. Yeah, we thought ours was going to be a two-year little experiment as well. And then we all decided to stay. So I totally, I totally get it. So how did you make the transition from your job? At that point, you're still working for the private equity or were you working within the marketing company.
Cheryl: Arcade Marketing was a company underneath this umbrella. And when I moved out here, we were only two years into buying Arcade. And then I stick we stayed on and for probably another seven or eight years before I even started to think about launching my own brand. So I did that out here. And we created an East Coast West Coast office here in the states. Arcade was expanding globally.
I did that here grew the business scaled the business. Eventually, we sold Arcade and there was sort of that moment in time of you know, do I pack my bags, go back to New York work with the same team that I worked with for 20 years, or I kind of had this itch, fire in my belly about a fabulous idea. And that's when I started thinking about and creating my brand.
Mimi: I find it interesting because I mean I know a little bit about the beauty industry being with BeautyCounter for seven years. It just seems like it's a very saturated market like to get your name out there. So I'd be curious like what all of a sudden made you think okay, I should start my own brand. Did you see What was lacking in the market to start your own?
Adopting a Less Is More Mentality
Cheryl: So I think there were two things. There was sort of a personal aha moment everyone talks about what was the aha moment, what was the great white space that you identified. I think mine was a combination. Number one had a complete overnight transformation. Perhaps not overnight, but it was a drastic transformation in my personal life. In New York, I was type a fast talker overachiever, just chaotic, frivolous shopper, you name it. That was the world that I lived in very fast-paced, with little to no work-life balance, no work-life balance, to be honest.
When I was tapped to come out here, it took me a while, you know, sort of to unwind, really embrace the culture, the people, just the different way of life. It’s really different, is so different, and you almost can't explain it. And I think you either can embrace it, and never want to leave, or you're going to run back to New York. And my experience was, gosh, this is a heck of a lot more fun. I feel healthier, I'm eating better. I have a better work-life balance. Just because I stopped my day at six o'clock to go for a hike doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to be less successful or less effective. That was acceptable here, you know, in your own very, not the way you're the first one in the office, you're the last one to leave.
As a female, obviously, it was even more different for me. So when I moved out here, my life dramatically changed. And everything became simpler. I did everything with a much more minimalistic approach the way I ate, the way I dressed, makeup I wore. I mean, it was night and day from the woman that I was in New York. Everything about it made me happier and healthier. Here was this personal journey of simplification, minimalistic, healthier, and happier. Then at the same time, here I am, I land in the beauty industry.
Insights: More Is Not Better
I am sitting around the table with these incredible, soulful, passionate entrepreneur founders. I'm learning a lot from when I was in New York with bigger brands, too. When I moved out here, small indie brands that were scrappy, and it was really, really inspiring. But what I did recognize this, as incredible as that was, for me, from a business perspective, brand after brand launch after launch, I really, truly recognize that the transformation that I had made personally was not happening in the beauty industry. It was continuing to be sort of frivolous and chaotic, oftentimes, you know, encouraging women to buy more and more and more and more and more.
The inspiration behind the brand really became my newfound philosophy, my newfound way of life. How can things be simpler? How can a brand make beauty simple again? And so it wasn't that one aha moment of saying this is the one product that's missing in the world.
It was really saying, No, when I got out of university in the early 90s, completely giving away my age, Bobbi Brown, Bobbi was simple and easy. That didn't matter.
My mother, my sister, we would all love the neutral symbol. She made it easy. Now there's thousands and thousands of skews. But I still swear by that brand, because it is the epitome of timeless age like a classic brand. When I was at this point in thinking about a simpler brand, I've thought about bringing things back to basics really the modern-day, Bobbi. How can I make it simpler and easier because the woman of today or the man of today would like everyone wants it? But what they're not willing to do is compromise looking fabulous or feeling fabulous.
So the entire line is not only clean without compromise. The incredible skin beneficial ingredients are infused into all of our pigmented products. But every single product in my line is multi purpose. So it's two, three, if not four products in one. So I'm streamlining the beauty routine, and I'm encouraging the consumer to buy less, not more. Now, my investment banker husband didn't understand how that was going to be a model to make any sort of money.
Mimi: That's a hard thing with when you're trying to look for outside funding. You're like okay, they only had to buy three SKUs instead of eight. The philosophy of buy less was created.
Buy Less: It’s a Mindful Act
Cheryl: Buy less, less less. But it really was reverse psychology of less is more with less. You are more we don't need all of this stuff in our lives. And the interesting thing, Mimi is that you know, I launched the brand five years ago, but think about what's happened over the past eight months. Women realize men realize they don't need so much stuff. And it doesn't have to do with just makeup, just skincare. It's even about your wardrobe and of what you've been using and how simple and easy and minimalistic things have been.
I think you know, right now is an interesting time for us. Because people are embracing that – three is only eight. This is simple and easy. This one product is really three products in one. So you buy less. And this is all I really need to run out the door to hop on a zoom. So it's been very interesting. It's obviously a philosophy in a belief that I embraced 12-13 years ago when I first moved here, and continue to. it's also a moment where I think the beauty industry, the beauty consumer is really thinking long and hard about what do you need? It's about being mindful.
Mimi: Right, exactly. So when you launched I mean, obviously, you're already in the industry. So you knew I would assume how to launch because you knew how to market and sample and all that. What would you say the hardest part about launching was in a market. To get your name out that is kind of saturated.
Cheryl: So it's really interesting, as much as I thought I knew a lot about the industry. Once you start digging around, and you start putting your business plan together, and you start thinking about your concept, and how do you take this concept and bring it to life? There's a lot that I didn't know. What I did have which is very fortunate, even to this day, I’m super grateful is I had this incredible network. Whether it was from a financial perspective, a manufacturing perspective, or people in the beauty industry. Founders who have done this before. Incredible CEOs who have, you know, built incredible brands. Lots of incredible advice and guidance and fans to really support and encourage me.
The challenges for me was even though I had some relationships, and people really were intrigued by my concept, and my idea, this is very interesting. It's not only clean, but it's luxe. It's multi purpose, it's making things simple. It wasn't really on trend when you think about developing six and a half years ago. But I think the most challenging thing for me was getting people not only to take a chance on me, but also to really understand the economics of it. You know, there are minimum order quantities, you're not just ordering 200 units from a manufacturer. So whether it's packaging, formulations, filling unicorns, you name it, everything sort of has a minimum. And those are not the things that you think about.
If you're launching just one product, that's fabulous, but I launched with 12 skus. So I think the challenge there was being able to sort of work with suppliers, negotiate with suppliers, pace yourself. You really didn't know what your supply chain needed to look like.
Evolving the Strategy
When I first launched, I was just launching on my own direct to consumer. That one or two specialty stores, but we didn't know what sort of inventory you were going to need. And I am manufacturing everything overseas. So all of my products are manufactured in Italy up until last year. Our new skin treatment skin prep products are produced in Japan. So supply chain is obviously a little bit of a challenge. But early on, I think that was probably the biggest challenge. Trying to work around that there aren't a lot of suppliers that really cater to the small brand.
Mimi: And if you're also a clean brand, right, your products are clean as well. Now, did you when you did launch talking about your inventory? Were you able to predict it properly? Or because the lead times tend to be like two or three months? Correct. So it's like you don't know if you launch all of a sudden, if you're gonna run out or not – did you run out or how did that work?
Cheryl: So within the first year, I did, but I did also have I had backup componentry on standby. So if you think about beauty products, whether it's skincare or color cosmetics, there's obviously a shelf life to them. I thought ahead and I produced everything from unit cartons to components and I had, you know, safety stock there. So even though I ran out of inventory within my first year, it was pretty easy to get things moving quickly. But it's really very hard. I even find it challenging to this day.
You can sort of predict if you think something might be a hero product. But you know what, you have one incredible influencer of one incredible retail partner something happens. So you're either long on inventory or an influencer absolutely wipes you out. It's all things that you have to really a bin flow and, and try to manage the best you can.
Mimi: Where did the name come from?
Cheryl: It's interesting. Everyone always asks if my middle name is Delilah or if I have a daughter, Lilah. Lilah was my Rhodesian Ridgeback. She was really part of my new found healthy transformation in California. I got Lilah when I moved here. And she was really a part of my newfound healthy lifestyle. It was running, it was hiking, she came to my office every single day when I was at Arcade. And she lives on in the brand she passed away last summer.
We now have a one year old puppy running around here somewhere. Another Rhodesian, but yeah, she's she was really special. I was still single. It was me and Lilah. It was a really great time. And I hadn't ever, ever made time for anything other than work, work, work when I was back east. So it was very refreshing.
Mimi: That's great. I love that name. I love that story. Have you had to use outside funding.
Bootstrapping Provides Comfort
Cheryl: So we pretty much bootstrapped the company, the brand to launch. And then we have been fortunate enough to have raised friends and family capital throughout our four and a half years now. It’s fantastic. I do think that there's a moment in time where you have to ask yourself what is needed to really scale the brand in a big way. And growth capital is it. And it probably would have been a moment in time this year for us.
But for obvious reasons. It's not happening today. But we've been very, very fortunate between just my husband and I and in our friends and family. But I do think that you know, going back to your earlier question, that's also another challenge. That is predicting what it's going to cost to get something off the ground. Then what it will continue to cost to really continue to build the business. And oftentimes, it's almost like a home renovation, you're usually way off what your initial budget was. We have been way off. And I think a lot of beauty brands founders would probably agree that they've had the same experience.
Mimi: So I always say it takes double the amount of time and double the amount of money.
Cheryl: Absolutely. Absolutely. I laugh now it's it's not very funny, but it's stressful moments. It's one of the things when I talk to some of the fitmom graduates that come up from LA, and they spend some time in our office, and they're looking for inspiration. They're looking for mentorship, and they ask really interesting questions. And I always say, it is really challenging to predict how much it's going to cost to build a business and to get it off the ground.
Mimi: I know if anybody who's listening who's trying to start a company right now, how would you suggest them bootstrapping? Like Are there any kind of tips that you have found that enables you to save money in the beginning?
Cheryl: I mean, I think that I was extremely scrappy with headcount early on. So I wore many, many hats, and only had one employee for almost my first 9-10 months before I started hiring people. So I think that that was a lifesaver for me. But I also had incredible insight from other people, beauty experts, industry, people that I had in my network.
I also think the important thing to do is early on, rather than taking on significant operating expenses internally, I farmed out a lot. So I had digital farmed out. I had someone focused on my social platforms, I had my website development farmed out. So it really was all a third party. And then inevitably, you really find out what might be better to bring in house once you can afford to do so. And what may be more effective by bringing it in house? But I think not necessarily taking that risk early on with headcount and building up your team right away. That was probably one of the most important things I would bet.
Having the Network
Mimi: Did you have trouble finding like outsourcing? I mean, there are so many people doing so many different things at different companies, like how do you find the right one? How do you find the one that's gonna get you the biggest bang for your buck? Was that through references? Or is there a website you use to find that like, how did you find those resources?
Cheryl: It was all in the network. And that's why I think it's so important for anyone who's starting a brand to really try to reach out and not feel, you know, nervous or embarrassed in any way reach out to experts. People who are interested in and open to providing you with advice based on their successes based on their failures. When I was in the industry, obviously, I met some of the most incredible labs and manufacturers and product development people and marketing people. So I had had those connections. And obviously, you make one call and say, who's the digital agency that you would recommend? And if you hear the same name two or three times, then obviously someone endorses it. So I think it's really just asking around. It all fits into the idea of buy less and yield more.
I'll be completely honest with you, within my first two years, there were probably one or two that didn't work out. But obviously not a full-time headcount is a huge waste of your time and money you find out early on. Yeah. Was there a point that you're like, Okay, this is gonna work? Like, Oh, my gosh, because I think starting a business, what's the percentage? The percentage is not very high that it lasts more than four or five years. So was there a point you're like, Okay, this is going to work. I think it was, obviously, the retail partners that were interested in intrigued by the brand early on. We were obviously trying to pace those launches, for obvious reasons,
I didn't have resources, I didn't have a tremendous amount of inventory. So within the first two years, I was really pacing, the wholesale growth. But seeing and hearing the feedback and how the brand was resonating, particularly with seasoned buyers that are in space, was when I sort of had that moment, you think that your product is fabulous. You believe in it, and you're passionate about it, and your friends and family that are surrounding you. You know that they must love it, but they're also being kind, but it's really going out to strangers and seeing their, their response to it. So it was really when the seasoned buyers, particularly when we ended up launching it. So for us, it was really when I felt really confident that we had something super special, very unique.
Mimi: Right. That's great. Now typically has many companies, their exit strategy is usually bought by other brands like bigger brands is that typically, what the exit strategy is.
Cheryl: My husband has always told me and I hear him even say to others who start their own businesses. You know, if you start thinking about the exit from day one, you're never ever going to get anywhere you really, you know, you might have your two-year three or four-year plan, sometimes even five or 10. But the reality is you have to really, truly believe in what you're doing today in full, right.
Mimi: And maybe there is no exit, maybe you're like, I'm going to just keep doing this forever. And I'm happy.
Cheryl: I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I love the brand, I couldn't imagine not being involved in the brand. And I feel like there's still so much more for me to do. So to think about an exit and thrilled to see some of these brands and how they secure significant investment from credible backers and eventually sell to some of these big conglomerates. I think it's, it's awesome. But I don't know that it's everyone's goal.
I think our goal is to keep my head down and get things right because I think there's still so much more for us to do. But I think that there's so many different levels to the next step, right there is in, you know, significant investors and partners that can help you scale the business in a different way, whether it's going globally, whether it's you know, having enough capital to really scale the business much bigger than you could do on your own. Yeah, it's a different world this year.
The Influence of COVID-19
Mimi: Now as your business, how has it changed because of COVID? Like what percentage was going direct to retail versus online. And now?
Cheryl: Well, there's a couple of different things that have changed. We were predominantly wholesale, but we had a nice direct to consumer business. The problem with that is that no matter how strong your direct to consumer business might be and how loyal your customer base is. We still are Color Cosmetics. And so who's wearing cosmetics and who's replenishing. So there was kind of like a double whammy here to us right? brick and mortar gets shut down.
We are actually sold in over 600 brick and mortar doors at this point across our retailers in and out of the United States and into Australia, Canada. And so when you think about being predominantly a wholesale brand, you're affected by the brick and mortar closures. So you're trying to pivot to support your retail your retailers calm platforms, which by way of sampling and you know, digital strategy and doing master classes and doing lots of founder stuff so to be able to support those businesses. Then taking a good hard look at your direct to consumer and saying okay, no one is buying eyeshadows no one is buying pigmented products. And I have to be completely honest with you. I would have never guessed this but our skin prep products launched in January and thank God because they actually have carried us through this moment.
Mimi: Because everyone wants to take care of your skin everyone's into taking care of their skin. Yeah, I finally have time to take care of my skin.
Cheryl: So you know the sort of risky move of crossing over into a different category, if you will, for Lilah B, I felt super confident, but you just never know how it's gonna go. I think the COVID situation is really proven that those hero products for us right now is really what's resonating. And it's also helping us also with our retail partners. But I just think the overall color is challenging right now. Clean is not.
Mimi: Women are becoming trendy, and everyone's into that.
Cheryl: Trend of health, wellness, clean ingredients clean without compromising, but let's face it, no one's wearing makeup.
Mimi: Are you utilizing any of the Instagrammers and influencers at all?
Authenticity and Mutual, Genuine Relationships
Cheryl: We are. We have an incredible influencer community that we've developed over the years. And we've done lots of user-generated content right now. So whether it's Instagram takeovers, which really truly can show the experience of you know. Three is all you need. This is how simple and easy.
Lilah B is. But we also have incredible influencers and affiliates that talk genuinely and honestly about the brand about the performance. Everything that we do is unpaid. That has been my belief from day one. I myself, am a very genuine, authentic person, I think it trickles into the brand. Everything that we do across all of our platforms. Our partnerships is true and genuine. It really helps because I think that anyone who knows the brand hears of the brand, everything is true and real.
Mimi: You said you don't pay them? How do they do affiliate? How are they getting compensated?
Cheryl: One of two things, either A) they would like the opportunity because they clearly love the brand. B) they would like to have something obviously for their followers. They're always in need of content, or there's an affiliate where they can offer either promotional opportunities. Like a discount code June, our followers, or even a commission-based opportunities percentage. It's sort of an extension of your sales team if you will. But a majority of it is just mutual, genuine relationships.
Mimi: Great. I saw online, you have a one on one consultant, talk about that, because I was like, Oh, that's interesting, I should do that.
Cheryl: Another really, really interesting pivot after COVID hits. So I had on my team, gosh, I had seven people in house and 40 plus freelancers out in the field that focused on supporting our retailers. So in brick and mortar environments, they would go into stores and train and educate and support a lot of the retail doors. And so obviously, after COVID, shut down, they had nothing to do. So what I did was almost everyone was furloughed, right out of the gate.
Then as we quickly tried to pivot to think about what we will be doing. What we need to do, to be able to mimic that in-store experience and being able to engage with a consumer obviously, they can't touch and feel the product. But how great would it be to have a real-time one on one conversation? So I took my head of education brought her back, we added a couple of others, and they are literally working from home. And people sign up for the virtual one on ones will follow up with them and make sure that they're happy with their purchase, or if they want to learn more about the brand.
It's really been going extremely well. Some of the people are you know, already levy fans and or others that obviously have a lot more time. They're at home, they're in front of the computers, and they want to learn so great. And I've been able to sort of pivot and change the roles of people that were on my team, pre-COVID.
Mimi: That's great. That's great. Any advice to anyone who's thinking about entrepreneurship or starting their own company either what it takes to be an entrepreneur any tips I wish I'd known this before I started.
The Value of Diverse Experiences
Cheryl: I think there's a couple of things. I think that you really have to as an entrepreneur, you really have to be okay with taking risks. If you're not risk-averse, I think that it can be a challenge, no matter what you're launching, no matter what you'd like to start. I also truly believe and I don't know that I ever really, really appreciated as much as I do today, particularly after COVID and the challenging business environment right now.
You really do need to surround yourself with the most supportive people, people that can lift you up even during a difficult time, or really just help you along with your journey. There's really no time and space for naysayers. So I really think it is surrounding yourself with people who will help you get through both good and bad times.
Mimi: That's good advice. Yep. Do you believe it is important for entrepreneurs to have experience before starting their own company?
Cheryl: Absolutely. I think it's very interesting today to see all of these men and women in college, and they are taking entrepreneurship courses, and they want to come out and they have this brilliant idea. And they want to start a brand, you know, right when they get out of college, and I encourage them to keep that dream in their head. But at some point in time, you are going to need experience. And it's going to be surrounding yourself with seasoned people that you can learn from both good and bad successes and mistakes, but also just to truly understand what it takes to run a business.
I think that smaller, scrappier businesses or brands, you could learn a lot more, because you can kind of get your hands involved in the collaboration a little bit more so than big, big companies or big firms. But I think the fact that I was in and out of various different companies gave me a lot of really interesting insight. I was not a marketing expert, I was not a finance expert, I wasn't the CEO of any of these companies I was in and out of, but I had the opportunity to be able to work within a company and learn the ins and outs.
It depends on really what you're passionate about. But I don't think that you can really, truly launch a brand launch a product, a business, a service business, unless you had some sort of experience. And it could have been bad experience. And you know that that's what you absolutely do not want for yours. But I think it's very important.
The Importance of Experience and A Trusted Network
Mimi: Especially for the network's like we were talking about before. It's just knowing who to call to ask like who is the right digital marketing person, because otherwise, you really wouldn't know who that person is, if you didn't have the person to call.
Cheryl: Network, you have a network that can help you vet rather than making mistakes. You really want to make sure that going forward, you do have different voices around the table, and that you have people that you can reach out to. I think that you learn a lot about that through your professional journey. So no matter. I mean, think about my years, I was working for 20 plus years before I started my own brand. So I've had a lot of professional experience. And I have a lot of incredible ex colleagues that I reach out to on a daily, weekly basis. And I think that's really, really important.
Mimi: Right? So you would not have been able to do what you've done in five years. If you had done that right out of college.
Cheryl: There is no way I might have tried, I persevere. And I probably would have given up my best shot. But I think the two decades of my work experience has given me the foundation to feel super confident in the decisions that I made. When I pulled together the idea and brought the dream to life. I think I couldn't have done it without that experience.
Mimi: No, it's totally true. I think the only thing would be different is if someone had invented something, right? That's like completely changing the market. Like you're not going into a market that's been saturated, that you came up with an idea that you're like, wait, this is complete whitespace nobody is doing this, I can't believe this app hasn't been made. I'll figure it out, right, because you have no competition. But if you're going up against competition, it's a different ballgame.
Cheryl: And I think to your point, if it is something absolutely fabulous and new, then maybe what you're doing is you're not necessarily getting you know, work experience at some tech company, but you're surrounding yourself, whether it's a tech investor that's going to invest in your idea, or an expert that's going to come in from an operational perspective and help you get it done. Because they've done it before. I do think you either need to have the experience yourself, or you need to surround yourself with people who know what they're doing to help you. You know through the journey.
Mimi: That brings up a good point. It's like if you're going to be investing and getting investors, either friends and family round or the angel round, make sure it's smart money, right money, that it doesn't just be money, it's money that opens up doors for you. They kind of know what your business is.
Cheryl: There's a value add. So it's well, while I think it's fantastic to have people who can support you from a financial perspective and help you you know, with capital to either start your business or continue to grow your business. It also is really great to be able to have value add people around the table that can bring something different than what I know. Because I clearly don't know everything. And it's wonderful to be able to have people surrounding you who can help you either that a certain decision or guide you when you're really stumped.
Mimi: That's great. I am so appreciative of your time and I'm very impressed with everything that you've accomplished, especially during COVID and I wish you the best as you keep growing your business. Thank you so much for coming on. And if anybody wants to check, you can go to Sephora. Obviously, some of the stores are open again. Or Lilahbeauty.com.
Thank you so much. Are there any other last-minute tips?
Cheryl: I mean, obviously, if anyone ever wanted to reach out to me, I am that person that would love to pass on anything and be helpful to anyone. But yeah, anyone wishing to pick a brain, I'm here.
Mimi: That's really sweet of you. I know, I just wrote a little article on my website about mentorship. Like, I wish.. I was talking to somebody, and they were talking about mentorships. And, you know, I was like, you know, I actually never I've met some incredible people in my life and my journey, and I never kind of like formally been like, in my mind, like, Hey, I'm gonna have them be like my mentor, and get me there. And I was like, I wonder like how my life professional life would have been different if I had done that. Because I think most people who have done very well successfully, like building companies have not done it alone. Right?
Cheryl: They have done it with other people that are literally bringing them along, you cut off years of mistakes, or like the amount of money that cost you for making mistakes can be a lesson by having mentors. So agree. And I think it works both ways. It's, you know, reaching out to try to develop the opportunity to be a mentor, or it's someone who, who wants guidance along the way, and to reach out and it's hard. It's hard to find that person. But I think surrounding yourself with supporters at the bare minimum is is so important.
Mimi: That's awesome. Thank you again, this has been amazing. I'm so glad we got to talk.